Unfortunately you could write a story like this every week using different names. I didn’t know this one at all. The Verve play in a neighborhood I rarely visit. I guess they got a token redemption in the end but that probably doesn’t pay any bills. Great piece.
Allan Klein is such a legendary music industry scumbag at this point. Can't even imagine how heartbreaking it must have been for The Verve to have this massive hit and not be able to enjoy it knowing some other guy was reaping the financial rewards. I guess an upside is that this happened in an era where CDs were still selling and they could make money off the sales and publishing from that (depending on their contracts I guess) whereas if it happened these days, they'd have fuck all to show for it. Still, was glad that Jagger and Richards signed over the rights, although I wonder whether or not they knew Klein had orchestrated this behind the scenes.
It was also interesting that the sample riff in question was essentially written by someone else and they that guy didn't end up getting any kind of payday.
This situation is so much like John Fogerty fighting it out with Saul Zaentz of Fantasy Records, unfortunately it took Fogerty 50 years to obtain the rights to his old CCR tunes. There were too many bad agents and record moguls in the 60’s and 70’s like Stan Polley (Hamm and Evans committed suicide over Polley taking their musical rights) Colonel Tom Parker and Don Arden.
... I knew nothing of this and it fully answered why Jagger/Richards names were credited with writing the song. Thanks!
I saw John Fogerty last summer when he finally got to sing his CCR stuff again. One of the best shows I’ve ever been to. He’s like 78 years old and played and sang like he just wrote the songs.
I can’t tell you how happy I am to hear that. I’ve always wanted to see him, but never had the chance. Fogerty’s one of the few who you only have to hear once and you’ll remember their voice forever.
Fine account. I’m sure there’s a lot of people who think of Bittersweet Symphony ‘yeah, great record, but plagiarised from the Stones, right?’ Bittersweet indeed…
They didn't understand a man like Allen Klein. The Verve should have told him to fuck off and, if Klein sued, countersued for every penny Klein owned, including the Stones catalog. Klein wouldn't have backed off, but he'd have negotiated, and something more equitable could have been worked out. It isn't personal for a guy like Klein; he's just trying to get everything he can out of an opportunity. If you show him that it's going to cost him more to play things out to the end because you're as much of a two-fisted maniac as he is, he respects you and cuts a deal.
I hate to say this, but borrow it off future royalties or some other asset. If you're a rock band with a potentially big hit on your hands, you do have some financial leverage. Both Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty won big lawsuits when they were essentially broke.
It would be a big risk and mostly bluff, but Klein was bluffing as well (something they may not have realized).
Obviously, you could end up with nothing when all is said and done. But if you're up against someone like Klein, you have to show you're willing to go as far as he is to get what you want, even if it destroys you. And after all, in the end, the Verve never saw a dime from the song anyway.
I'm not saying any of this is pleasant or easy, but they say the best way to fend off an attacking shark is to literally punch it in the nose.
Also, lest I be accused of being unfair to the Verve, this was all Klein's fault. He acted horribly. But that doesn't change the reality of what was going on, unfortunately.
And lest I be accused of naivety, I don't think the Verve would have won, per se. But I think they would have ended up with more than what they got—which was nothing.
1. Klein wasn’t bluffing. He was strictly against sampling and protected his properties as if they were his children.
2. It would have delayed the album’s release indefinitely, thereby severely hampering their chances of ‘borrowing it off from future royalties’.
3. He screwed The Beatles and The Stones. You think he wouldn’t have been able to handle The Verve?
4. They would’ve ended up with less than nothing. They would’ve been crippled by debt. Which they wouldn’t be able to get out of given the lack of album sales due to point #2 and/or having to remove their hit single from it.
All fair points and you know more about this than I do.
I do think Klein must have known his claims were tenuous and in a full-scale trial he might well have lost at considerable expense.
Frankly, screwing the Beatles and the Stones wasn't hard. Most of them had no idea how to run their money and basically handed everything over to his control. A very bad idea. However, McCartney wasn't fooled and actually managed to hold Klein off to some extent. It was possible to do it.
Crippled by debt is certainly one scenario, I just don't think it was by any means certain. During their lawsuits, Springsteen was prevented from recording and Petty's album was held back (I think). They supported their suits by touring and ended up winning. But the Verve may have been under contractual constraints and the like that precluded that tactic. I admit I don't know.
The Verve would also have definitely won the PR war and become a cause celebre on the music scene. To my mind, they could very well have come away with at least something that would justify the expense.
But you may well be right and I could well be completely wrong.
Phenomenal piece here. I knew the general issues at hand prior but this put them together in a way that humanizes even more and adds clarity. Well done!
Hey Simon, I'm not sure if you read / received the other user's comment (I took the liberty of deleting it), but I'd like to apologize if you did. Rest assured, I will not tolerate you or any other reader being attacked simply for expressing their opinion. I reprimanded the offending party, then decided that wasn't good enough. If I've done the job correctly, he'll be banned from commenting here forevermore. Sorry again.
Thank you, Sheila! I remember it being everywhere, too. So much so, that I got kind of sick of it, to be honest. But revisiting the song after all this time reminded me how great it is.
Thanks for the background on this recording. There are so many stories like this, it's pathetic. The greed and exploitation of young performers seems to be prevalent, rather than the exception. Great that Mick could right the situation.
I feel a certain amount of guilt about having Spotify, knowing that they are underpaying the artists.
However, the music stores have disappeared and loving music the way I do, I can't give up access to so many artists, the words to the music, the bios and concert info on a platform I can afford.
There needs to be laws mandating the percentage paid to the artists and judges specialized in mediation.
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment, Linda. Taking advantage of artists (regardless of the medium) is as old as the sea, I'm afraid. As long as those in charge of the music industry make maximizing profits their sole imperative, I doubt anything will change.
Which is exactly what caused the mix-up! I remember my British friends calling it ‘Oxton’. I knew there was an ‘H’ but my wires got crossed. Thank you again. It’s a relief to be rid of such an embarrassing mistake.
Unfortunately you could write a story like this every week using different names. I didn’t know this one at all. The Verve play in a neighborhood I rarely visit. I guess they got a token redemption in the end but that probably doesn’t pay any bills. Great piece.
Thank you, Daniel. You’re absolutely right. Tons of bands have fallen victim to such practices. And that’s just the ones we know about.
Hoxton not Oxton.
Typos will drive me to an early grave. Thank you for catching it, Rich. The name has been corrected.
Sonny, this is phenomenal. I had no idea the backstory here. The music industry is so awful.
Thank you, Matt. I’m really happy you enjoyed it. And yes - there is no shortage of soulless weasels in the music biz.
They say the music industry exists to make the movie industry seem honest.
this is what happens when lawyers get too involved with art.
Or anything else, for that matter.
Allan Klein is such a legendary music industry scumbag at this point. Can't even imagine how heartbreaking it must have been for The Verve to have this massive hit and not be able to enjoy it knowing some other guy was reaping the financial rewards. I guess an upside is that this happened in an era where CDs were still selling and they could make money off the sales and publishing from that (depending on their contracts I guess) whereas if it happened these days, they'd have fuck all to show for it. Still, was glad that Jagger and Richards signed over the rights, although I wonder whether or not they knew Klein had orchestrated this behind the scenes.
It was also interesting that the sample riff in question was essentially written by someone else and they that guy didn't end up getting any kind of payday.
Another excellent piece!!!
This situation is so much like John Fogerty fighting it out with Saul Zaentz of Fantasy Records, unfortunately it took Fogerty 50 years to obtain the rights to his old CCR tunes. There were too many bad agents and record moguls in the 60’s and 70’s like Stan Polley (Hamm and Evans committed suicide over Polley taking their musical rights) Colonel Tom Parker and Don Arden.
... I knew nothing of this and it fully answered why Jagger/Richards names were credited with writing the song. Thanks!
Thank you!
I had no idea about Fogerty's struggles or about the tragedies with Badfinger. Will definitely be digging into both of these stories.
I saw John Fogerty last summer when he finally got to sing his CCR stuff again. One of the best shows I’ve ever been to. He’s like 78 years old and played and sang like he just wrote the songs.
I can’t tell you how happy I am to hear that. I’ve always wanted to see him, but never had the chance. Fogerty’s one of the few who you only have to hear once and you’ll remember their voice forever.
And he sounds just like he always has, it’s uncanny.
I saw them at the whiskey in Hollywood when they were still called Verve. What a great fn band.
Great stuff. I knew a bit of that story but thanks for the deep dive!
Thank YOU, Billy!
Fine account. I’m sure there’s a lot of people who think of Bittersweet Symphony ‘yeah, great record, but plagiarised from the Stones, right?’ Bittersweet indeed…
Thank you, Robert. I can’t imagine the level of frustration Ashcroft surely felt.
They didn't understand a man like Allen Klein. The Verve should have told him to fuck off and, if Klein sued, countersued for every penny Klein owned, including the Stones catalog. Klein wouldn't have backed off, but he'd have negotiated, and something more equitable could have been worked out. It isn't personal for a guy like Klein; he's just trying to get everything he can out of an opportunity. If you show him that it's going to cost him more to play things out to the end because you're as much of a two-fisted maniac as he is, he respects you and cuts a deal.
Whose money do you suggest The Verve should have used to go after Klein and his army of lawyers? They certainly didn’t have any.
I hate to say this, but borrow it off future royalties or some other asset. If you're a rock band with a potentially big hit on your hands, you do have some financial leverage. Both Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty won big lawsuits when they were essentially broke.
It would be a big risk and mostly bluff, but Klein was bluffing as well (something they may not have realized).
Obviously, you could end up with nothing when all is said and done. But if you're up against someone like Klein, you have to show you're willing to go as far as he is to get what you want, even if it destroys you. And after all, in the end, the Verve never saw a dime from the song anyway.
I'm not saying any of this is pleasant or easy, but they say the best way to fend off an attacking shark is to literally punch it in the nose.
Also, lest I be accused of being unfair to the Verve, this was all Klein's fault. He acted horribly. But that doesn't change the reality of what was going on, unfortunately.
And lest I be accused of naivety, I don't think the Verve would have won, per se. But I think they would have ended up with more than what they got—which was nothing.
1. Klein wasn’t bluffing. He was strictly against sampling and protected his properties as if they were his children.
2. It would have delayed the album’s release indefinitely, thereby severely hampering their chances of ‘borrowing it off from future royalties’.
3. He screwed The Beatles and The Stones. You think he wouldn’t have been able to handle The Verve?
4. They would’ve ended up with less than nothing. They would’ve been crippled by debt. Which they wouldn’t be able to get out of given the lack of album sales due to point #2 and/or having to remove their hit single from it.
All fair points and you know more about this than I do.
I do think Klein must have known his claims were tenuous and in a full-scale trial he might well have lost at considerable expense.
Frankly, screwing the Beatles and the Stones wasn't hard. Most of them had no idea how to run their money and basically handed everything over to his control. A very bad idea. However, McCartney wasn't fooled and actually managed to hold Klein off to some extent. It was possible to do it.
Crippled by debt is certainly one scenario, I just don't think it was by any means certain. During their lawsuits, Springsteen was prevented from recording and Petty's album was held back (I think). They supported their suits by touring and ended up winning. But the Verve may have been under contractual constraints and the like that precluded that tactic. I admit I don't know.
The Verve would also have definitely won the PR war and become a cause celebre on the music scene. To my mind, they could very well have come away with at least something that would justify the expense.
But you may well be right and I could well be completely wrong.
Phenomenal piece here. I knew the general issues at hand prior but this put them together in a way that humanizes even more and adds clarity. Well done!
Thanks, Chad! You rock, dude!
Zero sympathy. Don’t use samples. And yes, I was saying so at the time.
Settle down. There are numerous ways to disagree without being a dick.
OK. Thank you for reading.
Hey Simon, I'm not sure if you read / received the other user's comment (I took the liberty of deleting it), but I'd like to apologize if you did. Rest assured, I will not tolerate you or any other reader being attacked simply for expressing their opinion. I reprimanded the offending party, then decided that wasn't good enough. If I've done the job correctly, he'll be banned from commenting here forevermore. Sorry again.
Oh I missed that. But don’t worry, I’m pretty thick skinned. But thanks 🙂
This is fantastic Sonny! Despite loving the song I never knew the terrible business machinations being the scenes
Thanks, Mark! Yeah, there was some dirty pool going on, that's for sure.
Excellent article, Sonny! That song was everywhere back in the day.
Thank you, Sheila! I remember it being everywhere, too. So much so, that I got kind of sick of it, to be honest. But revisiting the song after all this time reminded me how great it is.
Thanks for the background on this recording. There are so many stories like this, it's pathetic. The greed and exploitation of young performers seems to be prevalent, rather than the exception. Great that Mick could right the situation.
I feel a certain amount of guilt about having Spotify, knowing that they are underpaying the artists.
However, the music stores have disappeared and loving music the way I do, I can't give up access to so many artists, the words to the music, the bios and concert info on a platform I can afford.
There needs to be laws mandating the percentage paid to the artists and judges specialized in mediation.
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment, Linda. Taking advantage of artists (regardless of the medium) is as old as the sea, I'm afraid. As long as those in charge of the music industry make maximizing profits their sole imperative, I doubt anything will change.
Mind you, it would be pronounced by the locals as Oxton.
Which is exactly what caused the mix-up! I remember my British friends calling it ‘Oxton’. I knew there was an ‘H’ but my wires got crossed. Thank you again. It’s a relief to be rid of such an embarrassing mistake.
Lenny MacLean is from Oxton and Lock, Stock is set around there.